Recent Travails of SMF Team and Friends

[Kill Em All]

There are pros and cons to this topic. I see where you are coming from. But this is also how rumors get started in my opinion.

The public should be given some light as to what is going on, such as the SMF restructure, that was a good post.

Just my views. I still respect everyone just as much.

[Orstio]

There are pros and cons to this topic. I see where you are coming from. But this is also how rumors get started in my opinion.

No, rumours get started when people DON'T know what's going on.  They don't know, so they make something up, and spread what they've made up.  THAT'S WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO KEEP PEOPLE INFORMED.

[chep]

As a passerby - This topic is about lack of information and more about an underground disturbance which is not being discussed openly. If something cannot be discussed openly then it doesn't seem like the open forum is a great place for such a topic. I don't agree that "absolute" approaches to openness are applicable in all areas and more importantly situation sometimes dictates. I'll just assume SMF is at great risk of internal combustion since I read about 3-4 people left/quit/retired , there are divisions among some key members and the founder and the fact that some say we need a thread to talk about it openly to keep people informed. Thanks for sending me the hints at least.

SMF is a great product.

[Kill Em All]

K. I see where you are coming from, but I think both views are correct, just depends on the technicalities of the situation at hand. But now that I look at this more I see where you are coming from.

[Douglas]

I'll just assume SMF is at great risk of internal combustion since I read about 3-4 people left/quit/retired , there are divisions among some key members and the founder and the fact that some say we need a thread to talk about it openly to keep people informed.

Never assume anything, especially when those assumptions have the potential for being egregiously wrong (as they are in this case). 

[chep]

Well then come out and lay out the real facts if I'm all wrong. Otherwise this topic sounds like a bunch of ten year olds as opposed to an organized group of collaborators. I'll continue to assume as I desire. It's not derogatory in nature or malicious. RE: Egregious - On the contrary. Being correct is often a perception which is based upon personal or selfish matters and is not always a black and white subject. If you can't stand the criticism or assumptions then don't air the dirty laundry.

[青山 素子]

Well then come out and lay out the real facts if I'm all wrong.

There aren't too many facts at this time, as far as I can gather. I was around for a bit of the start, but not most of the recent stuff going on. Basically, some actions were taken to cut down on random political discussion and focus that discussion better, but it perhaps wasn't handled in the best manner. As a result, most of the former team members, and several current team members were very upset. Acting on emotion, many things got said, posted topics got deleted so as to keep the turmoil out of the public eye, and other actions occurred.

As a result, many people got the impression the project was dead, or that all the developers quit, or some other, mostly inaccurate idea. Rumors circulated in many areas. The topic was posted in order to address the rumors by noting publicly that talks between the two camps are ongoing.

If you can't stand the criticism or assumptions then don't air the dirty laundry.

Unfortunately, the dirty laundry was hung out in many places outside this board, making it important that it be addressed in some kind of official way. Unaddressed rumors can be very damaging.

[Owdy]

I'll just assume SMF is at great risk of internal combustion since I read about 3-4 people left/quit/retired

Actually, 23 team members have left in past 8 months. So yeah, this is serious business.

http://www.simplemachines.org/about/team.php

edit: and RC3 development progress you can see in here: http://dev.simplemachines.org/mantis/

[Antechinus]

One of them was left out of the list in the topic you are thinking of, so it's actually 24. Also, technically I am not on the team at the moment and may or may not return, depending on how these talks go. So it could well end up being 25 or more.

The "actions" that were taken last week resulted in the immediate loss of 30% of the remaining SMF team overnight, with more following in the next few days. These were people the team wanted to keep, not garbage they wanted to get rid of. To say that this "perhaps wasn't handled in the best manner" is something of an understatement.

[David111567]

Your analogy seems rather private sector centric, none of the examples involved a community based project only commercial ventures. McDonald's as do most large corporations consists of a rigid hierarchy which has no room nor any desire for any type of worker based "democracy" let alone community involvement. I'm not sure Microsoft is the best of examples either as I just can't see SMF as being the Microsoft of forum software or any stepping up to the plate to do volunteer work for Bill Gates.

Let's try a closer analogy, suppose you where doing fund raising for the local food bank and asked how the funds where to be used and you were told that it must remain a secret to avoid public embarrassment. Another scenario might be that you were baking cookies for the PTA and asking if your Gramndmothers recipie  for brownies would remain yours or be copyrighted by the PTA then told that the possibility of the PTA becoming a private concern was a secret and the recipes status would be made known to you as events transpired. 

Would you even donate to a concern who's books and policy's where kept from public view?

Dang.  You're better at this than I am!  Yes...absolutely, I see your point very clearly.  Good one.

[Paracelsus]

Most, if not all problems among people exist because of failure in communicating with each other.

I hope everything turns out ok for SMF... remember that the founders dream should be respected but at some point it is no longer the 'baby' it used to be and you just have to let it go so that it can grow by itself and become master of its own destiny.

(I know it sounds a bit cheesy, but you get my point)

[ardd]

Your analogy seems rather private sector centric, none of the examples involved a community based project only commercial ventures. McDonald's as do most large corporations consists of a rigid hierarchy which has no room nor any desire for any type of worker based "democracy" let alone community involvement. I'm not sure Microsoft is the best of examples either as I just can't see SMF as being the Microsoft of forum software or any stepping up to the plate to do volunteer work for Bill Gates.

Let's try a closer analogy, suppose you where doing fund raising for the local food bank and asked how the funds where to be used and you were told that it must remain a secret to avoid public embarrassment. Another scenario might be that you were baking cookies for the PTA and asking if your Gramndmothers recipie  for brownies would remain yours or be copyrighted by the PTA then told that the possibility of the PTA becoming a private concern was a secret and the recipes status would be made known to you as events transpired. 

Would you even donate to a concern who's books and policy's where kept from public view?

Dang.  You're better at this than I am!  Yes...absolutely, I see your point very clearly.  Good one.

I think it's very cool that we could provide opinion from two very different perspectives, points from each are valid. I enjoy this type of point counterpoint conversation as it makes me think not only about your positions but mine as well, win, win.    

[kat]

I think it's time to stop all the yapping and have a bit of action.

[Sabre™]

How about having a bit of patience, showing a bit of respect for both parties while in negotiation, and quit with the one liners you keep throwing around.
It has been mentioned that there is no 'quick fix', but yet you know this already, you are in fact "on the team" 

[kat]

Pardon me for bloody breathing.


Just so that you know, I suffer from acute tenosynovitis.


As a result, one liners are about the best I can do.


Thankyou for your concern.

[Sabre™]

*shakes head
Just recognise your position, and that what you type has an impact on the eyes that fall on them.
Alot of people are thirsty for blood and will strike upon any angle offered.
But I will opt out of this discussion, recognising my own ignorance.

[kat]

Wise move.


What I put was meant to be a bit of friendly urging. Nothing more.

[Sabre™]

Wise move.

pmsl
*couldnt help it

[kat]

I'm glad.


We can be friends, again.

[catfished]

I'm glad.


We can be friends, again.

That's great. I hope the two factions can have a similar result.