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Author Topic: 2.0 Final has been released  (Read 1796748 times)

Offline Pegasys

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Re: 2.0 Gold has been released
« Reply #260 on: June 18, 2011, 08:25:04 AM »
Well, we had a statement in red saying "This version of SMF is in development! Please do not use it on a production website!". It has been like this since the Beta release of SMF 2.0. A few patches were released considering the circumstances, however, that will not be the case with this one.

Your custom code will be gone, but the entries in the database should still be there. So, that should get you back rolling as soon as you place the custom codes are back into the files. ;)


You are absolutely correct. You did have that disclaimer on all the beta releases.

But do keep this in mind. You had that disclaimer since, what? 2008?  3 years? 

So in effect, for all that time, you were telling us to use some other forum product if we ran a production web site??? Or were we expected to keep using the 1.x version while other forum products moved ahead with solid new releases and modern popular add-ons?


I know you guys have struggled with internal issues and dissension... and all of your efforts and certainly the forum product itself are greatly appreciated beyond words. But your loyal fan base has also struggled with you. And if at all possible, I think making a 2.0 RC5 to 2.0 Gold Manual Update File available would be very much appreciated by those loyal users who have stuck it out and keep the faith in both you guys and SMF.

I can't give you any real numbers as to how many of us have used the 2.0 RC versions for active forum websites. I could make one up, though... but lets just say "lots". Lots of us have heavily modified 2.0 RC5 sites. And if most of the changes to the final Gold version are, as advertised, security and log on fixes...  a manual update file would save us a ton of time. Think of it as a reward to your loyal and faithful community.   ;)

The needs of the many...  (all of us)
Outweigh the needs of the one(s).  (the poor smuck(s) who have to write the manual update file)


Offline scimmiotto

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #261 on: June 18, 2011, 08:25:45 AM »
tnx a lot, it's a great news, i was waiting for this final since 2004. Tnx again, great present for my marriage :)
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Offline kaety

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #262 on: June 18, 2011, 09:20:51 AM »
I upgraded, but my theme is incompatible and I can't seem to find a simple way to write a new one...
Will have to hack up a 2.0 theme somehow, wish it had said this on the upgrade.php everything else worked well
Thanks!!!

kaety

Offline Gary

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #263 on: June 18, 2011, 10:04:48 AM »
tnx a lot, it's a great news, i was waiting for this final since 2004. Tnx again, great present for my marriage :)

Since 2004? Even though 1.1 went Final in 2006? :P
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Offline Kindred

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #264 on: June 18, 2011, 10:56:13 AM »
Pegasys,

Sorry, no.
We appreciate the loyal userbase, but we will not be releasing a package update for RC5->Final.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline Pegasys

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #265 on: June 18, 2011, 11:15:59 AM »
Pegasys,

Sorry, no.
We appreciate the loyal userbase, but we will not be releasing a package update for RC5->Final.

BOO!!  HISS!!   ;)

Offline NanoSector

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #266 on: June 18, 2011, 11:42:09 AM »
Pegasys,

Sorry, no.
We appreciate the loyal userbase, but we will not be releasing a package update for RC5->Final.
Which they never did for any of the 2.0 beta / RCx series.

Maybe 2.0 > 2.1 will get an package manager update?
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Offline Masterd

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #267 on: June 18, 2011, 11:48:16 AM »
Maybe 2.0 > 2.1 will get an package manager update?


It's not gonna happen.

Offline NanoSector

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #268 on: June 18, 2011, 12:03:05 PM »
Maybe 2.0 > 2.1 will get an package manager update?


It's not gonna happen.
I said "Maybe".
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Offline Masterd

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #269 on: June 18, 2011, 12:04:06 PM »
Changes will be too big.

Offline Kindred

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #270 on: June 18, 2011, 12:09:07 PM »
minor bug updates and security releases get a package manager update.
It is unlikely that major upgrades will ever be viable candidates for the package manager.
Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline NanoSector

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #271 on: June 18, 2011, 12:11:51 PM »
Changes will be too big.
I know......

But then again, why didn't the team already put those changes in 2.0? I mean, waiting a week more doesn't hurt that bad...
Ah well.

minor bug updates and security releases get a package manager update.
It is unlikely that major upgrades will ever be viable candidates for the package manager.
I'm sure that the package manager is pretty much able to handle it.
I mean, take the MAP3 Mod Manager besides the SMF Package Manager -- SMF's one owns a big deal. And even the MAP3 mod manager is able to do a big upgrade.
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Offline Alex' Manson

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #272 on: June 18, 2011, 12:15:13 PM »
so the whole thing will stop here? :P

Offline Illori

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #273 on: June 18, 2011, 12:22:55 PM »
minor bug updates and security releases get a package manager update.
It is unlikely that major upgrades will ever be viable candidates for the package manager.
I'm sure that the package manager is pretty much able to handle it.
I mean, take the MAP3 Mod Manager besides the SMF Package Manager -- SMF's one owns a big deal. And even the MAP3 mod manager is able to do a big upgrade.

being able to handle it and the team taking time to create it and test it to make sure nothing goes wrong are 2 different things, it is MUCH easier for the team to release it the way it does now and not worry about the package manager missing something, or a mod someone has installed breaking the upgrade process with the package manager which could happen easily.

Offline Norv

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #274 on: June 18, 2011, 12:27:38 PM »
The needs of the many...  (all of us)
Outweigh the needs of the one(s).  (the poor smuck(s) who have to write the manual update file)

Pegasys,

Allow me to give a little example. With all due respect, please compare for yourself:
- work on preventing possible data loss on people's forums on a couple of conversions
- work on forum affected by a pre-1.1.8 security issue on unsecured hosts.
- work on coding and testing a tool for forums on 2.0 to have
- work on language files that international forums use
- work on a security question that came to me, which proved to be absolutely false. But I had to be sure - on my time.
- work on reviewing SMF 2.0 API provided by a third party
These are only a few of the things I can tell *I* personally worked on for SMF users today - only today - and just about every day is like this. (and there are a couple other things)

Versus:
- leaving these not done, to give time instead on some convenience package with ALL files edits (no, not only a few fixes were made, ALL files changed versions and format of versions, and it's not optional because version matching algorithm changed in 2.0 Final), and test it for thousands of forums, and that, disregarding the significant additional support load it would bring anyway?

What do YOU think I should choose to spend my time on? :)

We have documented for people to know how the upgrade works for Final. The same way it always did, for beta/RCs:
- with brand-new files uploaded,
- a script you just run,
- and all your data safe.

Your data is safe, I can tell: I worked on the upgrade and tested in dozens of scenarios.
Your mods data is safely stored in the database, I can tell: I worked on package manager, we tested it with hundreds of unit tests and manual functionality tests. (I'm not exaggerating)
All you need to do is to reinstall the mod packages, so they can make their file edits, in an automated way, through SMF's package manager.

With all due respect, I have no time - for the next 2 years at least - to do that for you. Sorry.

The needs of the many vs the needs of the few? Thank you, I don't think so: I think, not to sound rude, that much more would be affected if I hadn't chosen to do the above, on critical matters for people and their forums.

HOWEVER, what I can - and do - is work on the future SMF, its code, its architecture, its planning, its development tools, its organization, to change some things to be even more seamless and user-friendly... including package manager of the future SMF. Now that the 2.0 release is out. But about that, in an upcoming blog. ;)

For now, SMF 2.0 is out there and is finally Open Source, available for people to use, modify, as they need or want to. Please feel free to use it or not, as you see fit.
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Offline NanoSector

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #275 on: June 18, 2011, 12:56:34 PM »
minor bug updates and security releases get a package manager update.
It is unlikely that major upgrades will ever be viable candidates for the package manager.
I'm sure that the package manager is pretty much able to handle it.
I mean, take the MAP3 Mod Manager besides the SMF Package Manager -- SMF's one owns a big deal. And even the MAP3 mod manager is able to do a big upgrade.

being able to handle it and the team taking time to create it and test it to make sure nothing goes wrong are 2 different things, it is MUCH easier for the team to release it the way it does now and not worry about the package manager missing something, or a mod someone has installed breaking the upgrade process with the package manager which could happen easily.
Sorry, I was not really aware of that :P

(as a side note, wouldn't it be cool if SMF had a tool that automatically downloaded the upgrade files and replaces the old ones? Not sure if webinstall does do that)
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Offline Kindred

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #276 on: June 18, 2011, 12:59:02 PM »
That would be a sure way to screw up people's installations, since it would then replace SOME files modified by a mod and not others. I other words, lots of fatal errors as mods break left and right.

Please do not PM, IM or Email me with support questions.  You will get better and faster responses in the support boards.  Thank you.

Offline NanoSector

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #277 on: June 18, 2011, 01:05:14 PM »
That would be a sure way to screw up people's installations, since it would then replace SOME files modified by a mod and not others. I other words, lots of fatal errors as mods break left and right.
No, I mean, a fully standalone tool (else I am already aware of the problems it may or may not cause), that first deletes the files, then redownloads them.

But let's first focus on further development, nice tools come afterwards.
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Offline Pegasys

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #278 on: June 18, 2011, 01:14:49 PM »

Pegasys,

Allow me to give a little example. With all due respect, please compare for yourself:

....



A simple no would have sufficed.   ;D

In fact, already got one or two...    ;)


Fear not. I fully realize how much effort goes into such a large endeavor as this. No need to explain or justify. I was just running the idea up the flagpole to see if it would get a few salutes.


Because I found both 2.0 RC4 & 2.0 RC5 to be stable enough for production... they are in production on a few sites. I use a lot of mods and modify a lot of code directly to accommodate each site's needs... and have historically appreciated & relied upon manual update files for version updates. Without them, the update process is obviously much more time consuming. Heavily modified or just mods added, without a manual update file, the site has to go off-line or be recreated in a test environment.

Not your worry. I understand you can't support modifications or even packaged mods. But a documented list of the code changes would have been nice. I will still manually update... by comparing files and updating code as required... and manually making any database changes found in the install script. Same method I used bouncing from one RC to the next.

Thanks again for all your time and effort on this. It IS... very much appreciated!!


Offline CaptainDEEZ

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Re: 2.0 Final has been released
« Reply #279 on: June 18, 2011, 06:03:39 PM »
So if I'm running 1.1.11, which is the best upgrade I can do?

1.1.14 or 2.0?

and if I choose 2.0, how many things won't get transferred to the new format?